Talk:Kathryn Janeway
D.O.B. In what episode was Janeway's year of birth revealed?--T smitts 05:51, 2 Jul 2005 (UTC) :No episode. I think it's alluded to in Jeri Taylor's Mosaic, but I'm not sure. I'll take the birth date out nevertheless. :Her birth''day'', however, was revealed in . Randee15 05:55, 2 Jul 2005 (UTC) ::In the article it say she quit tennis when she was twelve years old. Then it says in 2373, 19 years later, that she plays tennis again. That would seem to suggest that she was born in 2342.--Tim Thomason 15:34, 6 Jul 2005 (UTC) :Ah, but that's incorrect too. In {e|Deadlock}}, Kathryn only said that she had lost a'' tennis game when she was 12 years old, not that she quit tennis then: :"She [alternate Janeway of Deadlock] even knew that when I was twelve years old I walked home in a thunderstorm over seven kilometers because I lost a tennis match."'' :The point is, I reiterate, that Janeway's birth date has never been specifically stated either directly or indirectly in the show. It's true that Janeway mentioned she played tennis in high school, but that, after all, covers several years and hence does nothing to pinpoint an exact year of birth. Randee15 21:23, 6 Jul 2005 (UTC) ::I understand what you're saying. Obviously, she can't be born in 2342. If she was then she would have graduated Starfleet Academy around 2364 and she was already commanding the the year before. I misunderstood the article and was merely bringing forward what I thought was a contradiction. The quotes from Deadlock and Future's End, just indirectly state that she was born before 2342, which has already be proven indirectly by other scenes.--Tim Thomason 00:50, 7 Jul 2005 (UTC) DOB (redux) You call yourselves experts!! Janeway's birthday was stated in text in the Voyager episode The Killing Game Part I when the Doctor accesses the Neural Link interface. This is the closest to an exact birth date for Janeway that was ever given on screen, and a huge oversight by all you that have seen this these episodes a billion times!!! --Majorthomme 00:50, 1 Apr 2006 (UTC) : If she was born in 2344 she entered Starfleet Academy in 2360 (minimum entrance age is 16). It takes at least 4 years to finish Starfleet Academy so she would be 20 when graduating in the year 2364. (that is one year after she met Tuvok after her first command as Captain of the USS Billings, no go here) : If you do the math backwards its even stranger. If she met Tuvok in 2363 and being born in 2344 she would be 19. Far to young for a Captain and being 19 she would still be in Starfleet Academy. : Maybe someone who has the episode at hand can verify your claim or a screenshot of the aforementioned screen ? -- Q 09:24, 2 April 2006 (UTC) DOB link --Majorthomme 14:59, 2 Apr 2006 (UTC) :: According to that screenshot and from the way I can read it, she was born June 1, 2244. That would make her 127 years old when Voyager was launched. Either I am unable to read it correctly or the graphic's designer goofed. --From Andoria with Love 19:47, 2 April 2006 (UTC) :: For the record, a birth year of 2344 would make her 27 years old in 2371. This is clearly not the case. This is one of those times when a computer graphic contradicts canon and should be ignored (like some info on that Starfleet Archive graphic seen in ). --From Andoria with Love 19:50, 2 April 2006 (UTC) :::I've deciphered much of this image, but, still, I can't find the image with her date of birth on it. Anyway, here's what was written on the screen as it scrolled down: :::*"Aeronautics and science. As a child, one of Janeway's heroes was noted 20th-century Earth aviator Amelia Earhart. She has cited Earhart as one of her inspirations for joining starfleet. :::*"''Early in her career, Janeway served as science officer abord the USS Al-Batani. :::*"''As Captain of USS Voyager, Janeway and her crew were swept into the delta quadrant in 2371 by a malevolent entity calling itself The Caretaker. :::*"''In 2372, Janeway became afflicted with a potentially fatal virus caught after accidental contact with an insectoid lifeform on a planet in the delta quadrant. Extensive research determined that the condition would remain benign as long as she remained on the planet, but that she could not survive on the ship. Deciding that her crew should not sacrifice their chance to return home, Janeway ordered her ship to continue on their voyage, leaving behind Janeway and Commander Chakotay, who was also stricken with the disease. After several weeks voyage, the crew was able to obtain an anti-viral medication with the help of a Vidiian physician, Danara Pel. Janeway and Chakotay were sucessfully treated and returned to the ship. :::*"''An accomplished pool player, Janeway also enjoyed..." :::--Zsingaya 19:55, 2 April 2006 (UTC) :Thanks for the screenshot. It is hard to decipher it although the year seems to be 2244. (atleast the second 2 seems to be a two followed by 2 fours) I cannot make out the month or date, but as suggested earlier that would make her 127 years old. So to me this date does not seem appropiate for her DOB. I would also like to know where May 20 came from, anyone ? -- Q 20:27, 2 April 2006 (UTC) ::::Here are two screenshots from the episode. As can be seen on the first screenshot and at the very bottom of the second one, she was born in 2344, as unlikely as it may seem. The text is copied, nearly word for word, from the Star Trek Encyclopedia, only slightly re-arranged (and the birth date added). --Jörg 21:47, 2 April 2006 (UTC) ::::And here are the two lines preceding the text that Zsingaya could make out; ::::*"Born June 8, 2344 in the state of Indiana on Earth. Her father, Adm. Jon/Len Janeway ::::*"''died in 2358. Janeway (sic) interests include Renaissance art, XXX, tennis, XXX, ::::and the two final lines, before the whole text is repeated again: ::::*"''An accomplished pool player, Janeway also enjoys knitting, XXX and a good hot bath." :::: What is interesting is her father's name. It is nearly impossible to make out, but it seems to be a three letter name, Jon, or Len (named after the actor who portrayed him) seem likely. --Jörg 22:42, 2 April 2006 (UTC) ::::: Well, when all else fails, work the math back: if in 2373 it had been 19 years since she last played in high school, that would put her in high school in 2354. Now, while she was supposed to have been bright, it was nowhere stated that she was some sort of child prodigy, so it's not unreasonable to assume that she was in the normal age range for high school students (mid- to late teens). We don't know when exactly she stopped playing: all through school but nothing afterwards? Gave it up in sophomore year? So that doesn't help narrow it down. So: if she's somewhere between 14 and 18 in 2354, then she was born sometime between 2340 and 2336 (and guessing from the may birth date and leaving open the possibility of having skipped a grade, I'd say the highest probability is for 2337 or 2338, but that's just me). --Emperorkalan 17:09, 3 April 2006 (UTC) :Again, thanks for the extra screenshots. I have no problem with 2344 as it is visible on the printout. (although I still can clearly make out the date for the full 100%) But still the problems with her career remain. I've checked the episode again. There is no mention of 2363 as the date she met Tuvok. She does say Over the past nine years I've come to rely... Being in 2374 and using the nine years she knows him, this would put her in 2365. With a DOB of 2344 she would be 21. As far as Starfleet Academy is concerned she would have graduated but in no way she could make Captain within one year after leaving SA. -- Q 19:00, 3 April 2006 (UTC) ::::::Lets try this in the extreme. 1)What's the youngest age of a person in the academy? 2)What's the shortest time a person has taken to graduate? 3)What's the fastest a person has become captain? Jaf 19:51, 3 April 2006 (UTC)Jaf :::::1) 16 or 17 years old. 2) 3 years (and that's speculation). 3) Kirk took 11 years (by the 24th Century, Kirk no longer had the record, but his career is still really fast-track). Adding those minimums is 30 years. If she's 30 when she takes command of Voyager in 2371, then she's born in 2341 (and would have to be in high school at 13 to give up tennis in 2354, but that's consistent with entering SFA at the youngest possible age)(If she was born in 2344, she would have last played tennis at age 10, but we know she played until at least age 12). But there's also no material indicating she was THAT fast-tracked. So we keep coming back to somewhere in the late 2330s or really really early '40s. Again, I'll advance 2337 or 2338 as "most likely" dates, which fit all the known criteria without requiring Janeway to be super-exceptional in a way that probably would have been mentioned sometime in seven years aboard Voyager. --Emperorkalan 15:14, 3 April 2006 (PDT) ::::::: The problem is that the show contradicts itself- in ‘Fury’ it is mentioned they have known each other approximately twenty years. However, in ‘Revulsion’, there is the conflicting statement that their association has been for nine years instead. So if you're trying to work it out with Tuvok as a reference point, then there's going to be problems with that. 20:42, August 13, 2006 :::::::: Regarding "this would mean she was only 27 in 2371 when she took command of the USS Voyager, it is not recognized by most fans." :::::::: Is it really fair to say "it is not recognized by most fans"? Since when do fans decide what is and is not canon? If indeed this is acceptable verbage, it contradicts decisions made in the past. Most fans have recognized and argued that the registry of the is "NCC-62048", however that fan recognition doesn't seem to overrule the decision of how we interpreted the information presented. --Alan del Beccio 16:02, 26 September 2006 (UTC) ::::::You are quite correct. In fact in the trek universe there are a few temporal ways that she could age more than then amount of time that had passed. Jaf 14:25, 9 November 2006 (UTC)Jaf :::::::::In the picture it says June 5th, 2344. Mr.gn 16:09, 8 July 2007 (UTC) ::::::::::The Elite Force game says she was born in 2332 in her bio. 00:50, 13 June 2007 (UTC) :::::::::::Although, information created for Elite Force is non-canon and thus is not included in Memory Alpha. ;) - Adm. Enzo Aquarius...I'm listening 00:58, 13 June 2007 (UTC) ::::::::::::It's worth noting the year 2332 would be the right date, if Janeway was the same age as actress Kate Mulgrew, which may be worth noting. ::::::::::::Aside from that regarding the note “Not having played tennis for 19 years since high school in 2373”. I’m watching "Future's End" right now where the information is drawn from. In the episode she said she “quit tennis nineteen years ago” but the remark about when she was on the high school tennis team is separate and there’s not an implied indication that nineteen years ago was when she completed high school, or a time while she was at high school during the conversation. As a result I believe the note is pretty baseless as it is presented at present. Pheon 06:41, 28 September 2007 (GMT) :::::::::::::Connected to the age issue is also the issue of whether Voyager was her first command or not, and just how lengthy her service record is in general. The Janeway of 2371 seen in "Shattered" states that this is her first command. Both "Night" and "Revulsion" refer to time she served as a commander on the Billings. And of course, she served under (presumably) then-Captain Owen Paris on the Al-Batani, "during the Arias expedition" (cf. "Caretaker, Part I), which may or may not have been a multi-year mission. There is at least another reference to her time as a science officer on that ship; the episode escapes me. Mosaic and Pathways only muddy the waters further, of course. And does dialog in "Coda" state how old she was at her father's death? -Bajorakejel 16:30, 29 May 2008 (UTC) Nicole Janeway (VfD) ;Nicole Janeway : This information is (or should be) mentioned in the Kathryn Janeway article in the background information as the intended name for her character in pre-production and should not be its own article. --Alan del Beccio 15:07, 13 Jul 2005 (UTC) *'Redirect' to Kathryn Janeway. -- SmokeDetector47 // ''talk'' 15:14, 13 Jul 2005 (UTC) *'Redirect' to Kathryn Janeway. Someone may be looking for info on Nicole Janeway specifically, after all. Randee15 20:50, 13 Jul 2005 (UTC) *'Keep'. It simply needs a heavy amount of expanding. -- Lincolnian 15:19, 13 Jul 2005 (UTC) ** Background information pre-production information does not, or should not, get its own articles as you are suggesting, it simply belongs the page to which it applies. --Alan del Beccio 23:28, 13 Jul 2005 (UTC) *** Merged --Alan del Beccio 06:58, 17 Jul 2005 (UTC) ---- O my god! what have you people done. You have erased the past of Janeway! Shure, it redirects to The Great One(Janeway), but you have removed Janeways origins! How could you do this?! Janewayfan4497 03:46, 31 December 2006 (UTC) :That was over a year ago. If you wish to change it, you are welcome to propose it, but all that information should exist in the background of this article. It is hardly gone. --OuroborosCobra talk 03:49, 31 December 2006 (UTC) The backround is used for production data and backround data on Janeway, am i correct? Janewayfan4497 20:27, 31 December 2006 (UTC) :Yes, it can be, and that is what this is. --OuroborosCobra talk 21:44, 31 December 2006 (UTC) PNA-Incomplete Are there any detailed expansion requirements, the sections or anything before the PNA-Incomplete will be removed? :There should probably be something on friendships, romance, etc., probably under the "Personal Life" section.--Starchild 07:57, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC) More to say If there is a lot to say on other starship captains (e.g. Picard), there can be more content added to this page. There needs to be more detail and more about her journey through the delta quadrent. At least I added the coffee part. :) --Galaxy001 04:51, 6 Jan 2006 (UTC) Never mind. I didn't check the article before I put this comment in. Whenever I had visited it, it needed expansion. --Galaxy001 04:53, 6 Jan 2006 (UTC) :There is a lot more to say about Janeway. We need more data on Miss Universe(Janeway)! Janewayfan4497 00:22, 17 November 2006 (UTC) PNA I added PNA because this article needs to be better formatted (e.g. there is a huge section without any breaks). It just looks kind of messy. That's just my opinion. Anyone can remove it if you think it is unnecessary. --Galaxy001 01:43, 17 Jan 2006 (UTC) :Yeah, that's pretty much the only real problem with this anon's edits -- the articles seem to be really cluttered. I also found out he described Malcolm Reed as the chief helmsman of the Enterprise, which was on the extreme end of wrong, so I'm not sure how much more info on these articles is incorrect, although I doubt it'll be a lot. --From Andoria with Love 02:27, 17 Jan 2006 (UTC) I will say again that the VOY character articles are extreemly cluttered. This article needs to be re-formatted, so please don't remove the PNA unless you reformatted it. --Galaxy001 01:51, 26 January 2006 (UTC) There, I reformatted it. Now it looks a little nicer. :) --Galaxy001 00:41, 31 January 2006 (UTC) Pictures? Should we add more pictures? It would give it better illustrations... --Galaxy001 06:23, 12 February 2006 (UTC) :I think so. Janewayfan4497 21:01, 18 July 2006 (UTC) Her Dog her dog mollie should probably be mentioned somewhere, i'm not sure where :Indeed, you are correct! Her faithful canine is most certainly worthy of a mention! would someone care to add it into the appropriate section? --From Andoria with Love 00:14, 5 August 2006 (UTC) Coffee-Nebula In which episode does she say "There's coffee in that Nebula"? I wanna see/hear this myself it's so damn funny xD --Trent Easton 17:11, 22 August 2006 (UTC) : , Season 1. - AJ Halliwell 17:13, 22 August 2006 (UTC) USS Al-Batani There is a line in the section about her early career that reads "Neelix indicated in "Live Fast and Prosper" that she had served on the Al-Batani prior to captaining Voyager, but it was later clarified in "Shattered" that the Al-Batani was her first ship assignment" I was thinking that this is not a contradiction if she served on the same ship twice. Maybe she was assigned to it, something else, it again. Does that make sense? Chickens! 04:54, 19 December 2006 (UTC)Chickens! :Neither does that note imply contradiction. It says that something was later "clarified". That means we had a small amount of information on something (she served on the Al-Batani before being on Voyager), and then later were given more information on the same thing (she served on the Al-Batani before being on Voyager, and that said service was the first time she was assigned to a ship). --OuroborosCobra talk 05:11, 19 December 2006 (UTC) Ok. Thank you. I thought it said that you thought she was on it right before Voyager and not right before Voyager. It takes me a little while sometimes. I need to let things sink in. Chickens! 05:14, 19 December 2006 (UTC)Chickens! :No problem at all. Glad to be of service :-) --OuroborosCobra talk 05:15, 19 December 2006 (UTC) Did Mulgrew play Admiral Janeway in Endgame? Or did someone else (older) take the role? Will (Talk - ) 00:30, 30 January 2007 (UTC) :It was Mulgrew. --OuroborosCobra talk 00:32, 30 January 2007 (UTC) ::From the pictures I just placed here, and the fact that Mulgrew was credited for her role (between Robertson Dean and David Ralphe) shows it is highly likely that it is her... or maybe an identical twin.--Tim Thomason 00:52, 30 January 2007 (UTC) File:Kathryn Janeway, 2377.jpg|I'm Mulgrew. File:Kathryn Janeway, 2379.jpg|Am I Mulgrew? :Um, those are not good comparisons, as they are not what is being asked about. Here is a better gallery: File:Kathryn Janeway, 2377.jpg|I'm Mulgrew. File:SC-4 interior.jpg|Am I Mulgrew? :Silly Tim. --OuroborosCobra talk 00:59, 30 January 2007 (UTC) It is obvious that the top right image is from Nemesis -- not Endgame. Will (Talk - ) 05:27, 30 January 2007 (UTC) : Yes, my bad. I misunderstood the question. Same thing happened on my ACT's, I swear.--Tim Thomason 05:32, 30 January 2007 (UTC) I assume they did the "old look" with makeup and a wig? Now that I have Firefox 2.0, I should be noticing that I spelled word wrong. Don't know why I didn't notice. Will (Talk - ) 09:37, 30 January 2007 (UTC) Background and Apocrypha sections They break the MA:POV. We agreed on MA-fr putting a realworld section template at the beginning of these sections. What do you think of creating here on MA-en this type of template ? --[[User:Conruyt|''STAR TREK'' Man]](Space... the final frontier) 11:55, 20 April 2007 (UTC) :Actually, they don't really break the POV policy because they're separated from the rest of the article. See the section on background info here. That said, a template for those sections may not be too bad of an idea... --From Andoria with Love 19:40, 20 April 2007 (UTC) They are in sections considered falling under the realworld POV template, ok. But if you read the article as a whole from beginning to the end ; and like an omniscient Archivist, you will certainly consider and find these last sections byzarre (weird) in that article text, no? So, they should be better distinguished from the rest, IMHO. Hence the new template. --[[User:Conruyt|''STAR TREK'' Man]](Space... the final frontier) 20:40, 20 April 2007 (UTC) Janeway's Supposed Middle Name I seem to recall an episode where I heard it was Elizabeth. Or is that really from some novel and I am confused?– [[User:Eyes Only|''Watching...]][[User Talk:Eyes Only| ''listening...]] 14:32, 24 November 2007 (UTC) Vice-Admiral Is it ever stated in dialog that Janeway is a Vice-Admiral in Nemesis? Because I am inclined to write this off as a costuming error as that would involve her having been promoted three grades between the end of Voyager and the beginning of Nemesis. While this isn't impossible, it is highly improbable. It is much more likely that she is actually a Rear-Admiral, but I defer to others with more knowledge on the subject than I -- General Grant 12:56, 10 January 2008 (UTC) :I am pretty sure Picard greeted her by addressing her as "Vice-Admiral Janeway". In the scene when Picard is contacted by Janeway, to be briefed about his mission to Romulus.-- Rom Ulan 17:07, 10 January 2008 (UTC) ::No, Picard simply referred to her as "Admiral Janeway" to which she replied, "Jean-Luc. How would you like a trip to Romulus?" --From Andoria with Love 21:01, 10 January 2008 (UTC) :::Doesn't it go Captain > Rear Admiral > Vice Admiral, thats two steps in rank. 17:05, 6 March 2008 (UTC) ::::Ranks go in order Captain to Rear Admiral lower half to Rear Admiral to Vice Admiral. As to the earlier conversation it may have been a costuming error or (going in-universe) Starfleet thought she did such a good job they promoted her several ranks. :::::Maybe Starfleet has the same system to promote Admirals like the US, where it is possible to skip ranks if you are promoted to a post which is attached with an definite rank. :::::e.g. if you are promoted to the Judge Advocate General you are always promoted to Major General or Rear Admiral (uh) (two star post) no matter your previous rank. :::::: This may be a moot comment, but why did they give Janeway an Admiral rank at all? Yes she traversed the Delta Quadrant, something that no other officer had done before, but really...Kirk got demoted for stealing the enterprise and Janeway's done plenty of stuff that can be toatled up to worse than stealing a ship (examples are 'many' breakings of the Prime Directive, killing crewmembers, giving Federation Tech to aliens) just seems very, very strange that they gave her that rank.Lightningbarer 15:27, 3 October 2008 (UTC) :::::::One thing to remember, Kirk's demotion was a reward more than a punishment. You could see it on the face and the tone of the president when he said that he was getting "command of a starship", and on the entire crowd in applause at those words. They knew that was the greatest reward they could give Kirk. He had never liked flying a desk. --OuroborosCobra talk 17:24, 3 October 2008 (UTC) Disturbing In Joke? In James Elroy's magnum opus LA Confidential, which was printed a decade before ST: Voyager... Katherine Janeway is a teen-hooker who is violently raped and beaten to death, and serves as one of the main characters motivations for an investigation into prostitute slayings. And, the Night Owl was an all night diner where a multiple homicide that plays a major part in the novel occurs (the second section is called "Night Owl"). Tangentially, the previously mentioned hooker's pimp is one of the victims in the Night Owl slayings. I know ST writers are notorious for their in-jokes and homages, though this one seems off color. Still, is it worthy of a trivia note, or a separate article: Katherine Janeway (LA Confidential). : Well, it would definitely not warrant a separate article, as we don not cover non-Trek fictional characters here. "Katherine/Catherine/Kathryn" is a pretty common name, so it's not out of the ordinary that a character to have independently been given the same name as a different character ten years earlier. : I don't think it could be used as a trivia note, unless it can be proven through some sort of behind-the-scenes statement that it was an homage to the LA Confidential reference. It's possible, since the character was originally named Kathryn (before going to Nicole, then back to Kathryn), but probably shouldn't be added unless it is confirmed. A quick Google search proves that there are plenty of James Kirks, Jonathan/John Archers, even some William/Will/Bill Riker/Rikker/Ryker/Riekers.--Tim Thomason 05:04, 14 January 2008 (UTC) Removed Quote Removed the following quote, as I don't believe it was ever said, but if it was, it can be put back with the appropriate citation. "Damnit Tuvok, the Prime Directive doesn't apply. They have coffee!" : - Janeway, to Tuvok--31dot 01:13, 15 July 2008 (UTC) :: That was never said, atleast that I remember, and I've watched the series more that 12 times in a row (not all in one sitting of course :P) JeffreyAlpha172 23:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC) Lineage *"Janeway's grandfather was of Irish descent and her grandmother of Hungarian descent." Where is it said that she is of Hungarian descent? I've read Star Trek: Mosaic, and I don't remember it being mentioned, am I wrong? JeffreyAlpha172 00:11, 18 July 2008 (UTC) : Even if it was from that source, it shouldn't be listed as if it was canon. I have since removed that comment. --Alan 00:29, 18 July 2008 (UTC) I was going to remove it but wanted to see if anyone knew the source. Thanks for the clarification on the info boxes btw. JeffreyAlpha172 00:31, 18 July 2008 (UTC) Chakotay Is it me or does the Chakotay section seem a little too, I cant seem to find the right word but, familiar, written almost like its a research paper and not an encyclopedic entry? Then again it could just be the writer in me =P JeffreyAlpha172 01:08, 18 July 2008 (UTC) Removed Early Career I removed the following comment from the early career section. :In Season 6 Episode 3, Councilor Troi cancels a counseling session with an "ensign Janeway" indicating that Janeway may have served on the enterprise-D at one time. :Aside from the spelling errors and lack of citation, or even mention of which series this was referring to, Kathryn Janeway could not have been an ensign at this time. Something like this might belong in background information, but this doesn't belong at all.?--Vince47 Picture Just wondering, why was the first picture changed? I thought the first one was better, though I have no particular preference.--31dot 00:19, 4 May 2009 (UTC) Death? I am reading the book Star Trek Voyager: Full Circle by Kirsten Beyer and in it, Janeway dies. Is the book considered canon or not, as this article does not mention her death. 21:16, October 30, 2009 (UTC) :See Memory Beta for non-canon material. Her death was mentioned in the background section a while ago and might still be there. — Morder (talk) 21:20, October 30, 2009 (UTC)